In response to the question that "WHERE JESUS (PBUH) HIMSELF SAID THAT HE IS GOD?" christian brother responded---
Quote
He did not only say it but others
said it even before He was born of a virgin said He was God And when He was on earth and after
He went back into heaven The names given Him before He was born:
Isaiah {9:6} For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. {9:7} Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. |
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First of all the question was "WHERE JESUS (PBUH) HIMSELF SAID THAT HE IS GOD"?
NOT OTHERS!!
As per you 'others' say this before he was born so this didn't answer our Question.
Anyway let's proceed further into your quotation-
The verse '6' says “a child IS born” “a son IS given”. Had this been prophesy it should have like this
“a son SHALL be born” “A son SHALL be given”.
As we know Isaiah is a Book from Old Testament (before Prophet Jesus pbuh) as per christian sources Isaiah was a prophet in the 8th-century BC Kingdom of Judah.
Here is the exact Name From Hebrew Bible
5 For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us; and the government is upon his shoulder; and his name is called Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom;
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1009.htm
First of all there are some rules for translation work. And one of the rule is “Names are not translated”. Mr Black remains Mr Black even if he is white. So translating the name is against the rule of translation.
Unfortunately Bible translators while translating even translated the name like in Song Of Solomon 5:16 , John 16:13 etc and people are reading the translation without the original.
Any way look at another Translation here the word is “Messenger of great counsel”!
which is correct???
6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel:
http://ecmarsh.com/lxx/Esaias/index.htm
Which is correct???
=================================================================
Some Christians will still argue and refuse to accept the above mentioned argument. No problem kindly ponder over verse “7” which proclaims some conditions that should be fulfilled
Conditions are -
1-He will establish his government with judgment and justice.
2-Peace will prevail forever.
Did Jesus (as) satisfied these conditions???
NO!!!
1-He never established his government; on the contrary he said that his kingdom is not of this world!!
Bible, John {18:36}
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
2-Did peace prevailed under his Government ?......Instead as per Christians he himself was killed on cross and he cursed God "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me (Matthew 15:34)"!!
[*Note that we Muslim don't agree with Christian claim of crucifixion]
First of all the question was "WHERE JESUS (PBUH) HIMSELF SAID THAT HE IS GOD"?
NOT OTHERS!!
This question is based upon Quranic verse (Meaning)
2:111. And they(Jews & Christians) say, "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian." That is [merely] their wishful thinking. Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful." |
As per you 'others' say this before he was born so this didn't answer our Question.
Anyway let's proceed further into your quotation-
The verse '6' says “a child IS born” “a son IS given”. Had this been prophesy it should have like this
“a son SHALL be born” “A son SHALL be given”.
As we know Isaiah is a Book from Old Testament (before Prophet Jesus pbuh) as per christian sources Isaiah was a prophet in the 8th-century BC Kingdom of Judah.
Here is the exact Name From Hebrew Bible
5 For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us; and the government is upon his shoulder; and his name is called Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom;
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1009.htm
First of all there are some rules for translation work. And one of the rule is “Names are not translated”. Mr Black remains Mr Black even if he is white. So translating the name is against the rule of translation.
Unfortunately Bible translators while translating even translated the name like in Song Of Solomon 5:16 , John 16:13 etc and people are reading the translation without the original.
Any way look at another Translation here the word is “Messenger of great counsel”!
which is correct???
6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel:
http://ecmarsh.com/lxx/Esaias/index.htm
Which is correct???
=================================================================
Some Christians will still argue and refuse to accept the above mentioned argument. No problem kindly ponder over verse “7” which proclaims some conditions that should be fulfilled
Conditions are -
1-He will establish his government with judgment and justice.
2-Peace will prevail forever.
Did Jesus (as) satisfied these conditions???
NO!!!
1-He never established his government; on the contrary he said that his kingdom is not of this world!!
Bible, John {18:36}
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
2-Did peace prevailed under his Government ?......Instead as per Christians he himself was killed on cross and he cursed God "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me (Matthew 15:34)"!!
[*Note that we Muslim don't agree with Christian claim of crucifixion]
He didn’t fulfilled these conditions.
So this verse did not talk about Jesus (as) at all.
So this verse did not talk about Jesus (as) at all.
Still the question remains unanswered!!
"WHERE JESUS (PBUH) HIMSELF SAID THAT
HE IS GOD"?
"WHERE JESUS (PBUH) HIMSELF SAID THAT
HE IS GOD"?
Bible, Numbers 23:19
"God is not a man.........nor a son of man......"
============================================================="God is not a man.........nor a son of man......"
Dear Christian brothers kindly ponder over these verses from Quran
2: 116. They say, "Allah
has taken a son." Exalted is He! Rather, to Him belongs whatever is in the
heavens and the earth. All are devoutly obedient to Him,
4:171. O People of the Scriptures (Jew & Christians),
do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The
Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word
which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So
believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist
– it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above
having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the
earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.
6:101. [He is] Originator of the heavens and the earth. How could He have a son when He does not have a companion [i.e., wife] and He created all things? And He is, of all things, Knowing.
10: 68. They(Christians) have said, "Allah has taken a son." Exalted is He; He is the [one] Free of need. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. You have no authority for this [claim]. Do you say about Allah that which you do not know?
17:111 And say, "Praise to Allah, who has not taken a son and has had no partner in [His] dominion and has no [need of a] protector out of weakness; and glorify Him with [great] glorification
6:101. [He is] Originator of the heavens and the earth. How could He have a son when He does not have a companion [i.e., wife] and He created all things? And He is, of all things, Knowing.
10: 68. They(Christians) have said, "Allah has taken a son." Exalted is He; He is the [one] Free of need. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. You have no authority for this [claim]. Do you say about Allah that which you do not know?
17:111 And say, "Praise to Allah, who has not taken a son and has had no partner in [His] dominion and has no [need of a] protector out of weakness; and glorify Him with [great] glorification
25: 2 He to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and
the earth and who has not taken a son and has not had a partner in dominion and
has created each thing and determined it with [precise] determination.
43: 81. Say, [O Muhammad], "If the Most Merciful had
a son, then I would be the first of [his] worshippers."
49:4. Indeed, those who call you, [O Muhammad], from
behind the chambers – most of them do not use reason.
61:6 And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O Children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic.
112: 3. He neither begets nor is born.
-:Regards :-
Mohammed Tariq
.
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